HOSTING FEES DUE AGAIN ~ "ain't too proud to beg"
WARNING !!!!
Waterford Hills Vintage Races ~ August 5-6
Put-In-Bay ~ August 27 ~ 30
CSRG Sonoma ~ Sep 29-Oct 1
NEW POSTS
Super-exciting news: I just got a 240Z race car!
by Mike Clifford
Yesterday at 09:21 PM
Dave Brown's comments on the SCCA Blackhawk Majors
by Hap Waldrop
08/17/17 08:23 AM
VDCA at Roebling Road
by Gruffalo
08/15/17 08:42 AM
Prod Cars at vintage events
by Benci96
08/09/17 02:05 AM
Track Day Zone
by TrackDayZone
08/04/17 06:39 PM
Coffield mkII H/Mod.
by zuzulo56
08/03/17 01:33 AM
Triumph crank and pan
by Firebird
07/31/17 09:35 AM
"Racy Gals"... Women Race Drivers (Past/Present)
by Amélie Renoncule
07/30/17 02:35 AM
Performance shocks
by rick haynes
07/27/17 11:54 PM
Road America event
by rick haynes
07/25/17 11:40 PM
RACING ENGINES, A TECHNICAL EXAMINATION
by fordboy628
07/23/17 12:47 PM
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#13470 - 11/16/16 04:07 PM Question for ProCoach
dcb Online   content
Champion

Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 982
I swear that I've developed a phobia with lefthand turns. In your experience do drivers have a comfort zone/preference with left or right turns? If so, what's going on?

Dave Brown

Top
#13471 - 11/16/16 06:07 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
ProCoach Offline
Champion

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 698
Loc: Virginia International Raceway
Absolutely, Dave. Makes sense and jibes with my experience with some drivers.

Is your car RHD or LHD? Seriously, usually when the weight is on the inside, folks do better with those turns. With it on the outside, people feel "tippier."
_________________________
-Peter Krause
Professional Race Instruction and Coaching
Data and Video Sales, Interpretation and Training
"The Driver is the Greatest Performance Variable"
www.peterkrause.net

Top
#13472 - 11/16/16 11:34 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: ProCoach]
dcb Online   content
Champion

Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 982
The new car is RHD, but I think I was struggling with this with my old LHD car. I don't believe I used to have this problem, but I kind of feel a tentativeness about left turns now... odd.

I remember being told years ago that when you start to become nervous about a turn, the tendency is start getting into it too soon which usually only aggravates the problem. But this problem seems to be more like I'm just not aggressive enough - a little cautious about letting it all hang out.

I think it's really just a lack of track time period and a lack of seat time with this car, but I wonder how common it is for drivers to favor one direction or the other.

Dave B

Top
#13473 - 11/17/16 06:11 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
79march Offline
Novice

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 30
Dave: I recall when I first went from sports cars to formula cars how much better I could judge the apex when approaching the corner. When I've gone back to sports cars I feel a distinct difference in my ability to judge my position especially on right hand turns with a LH drive car. For me the sight line just isn't as clear. There's nothing like being able to see that damn tire.

Top
#13474 - 11/17/16 08:36 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
ProCoach Offline
Champion

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 698
Loc: Virginia International Raceway
It is common, and it's mostly related to vision.

As you drop yourself in the car, you can see less of the road (or the curbing) close to the car. As an experiment, put some cushions in the bottom of the seat, not so much you lose your lateral support and have to hold your upper body up with the wheel. Then, try it.
_________________________
-Peter Krause
Professional Race Instruction and Coaching
Data and Video Sales, Interpretation and Training
"The Driver is the Greatest Performance Variable"
www.peterkrause.net

Top
#13475 - 11/18/16 09:09 AM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: ProCoach]
dcb Online   content
Champion

Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 982
And all of this brings me to the point that perhaps the most useful and low-tech tool to evaluate and improve your driving is the in-car video.... can make you feel pretty bad about yourself as well!

But watching them and keying in on shift points, braking, track position, smoothness and anything else that's visible teaches you a lot about what needs improving. The thing is, you realize it's really hard to be consistent, let alone on-line. But these are things we all can improve even if we don't have the best motor or the best car. And it's pretty satisfying to watch your video and see at least a few laps that are pretty damn good... rare is they are.

Dave Brown

Top
#13476 - 11/18/16 02:34 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
Alfaromeo1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 67
Loc: IL
Our videos are humbling and enlightening at he same time. I see things I like and see places I could have saved some time. My best time ever at Road America I see a couple of seconds that can come off. I am not so naive to think I will drive a flawless lap but there is plenty of time to be gained for most of us.

As far as left hand and right hand corners I do not have a preference on most but on sweepers, carousels and kinks I definitely prefer left handers. Unfortunately most of these are right handers in road racing.

I often wonder how much time a Indy or F1 driver could take off our vintage times in the same car.

Would Peter or anyone else care to guess what a pro could run a fast B-Sedan car at Road America set up the way they like?

I should be able run a mid 38 judging the time I give up on my 2:41 flats with more seat time and and running smooth consistent laps, so would a pro be able to run 33's? There is a limit to adhesion and power in these cars but these guys are on another planet when it comes to technique and skills. Any thoughts on this?


Edited by Alfaromeo1 (11/19/16 09:26 AM)
_________________________
Terry R. Stahly
Bloomington, IL 72 Alfa GTV 2000
Grp 8 VSCDA, SVRA, Midwest Counsel, HSR

www.stahly.com
www.4qte.com

Top
#13479 - 11/20/16 08:15 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: Alfaromeo1]
tabs Offline
Winner

Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 402
Terry,
your car should run a 2:38 with a good driver in it and proper car set up for that particular driver. Your car has the best power to weight ratio of all B sedan cars, plus a way more Aero Dynamic shape than the Datsun 510 Brick.
A 2:33 would be a stretch even for a F1 driver. The tires just don't have enough grip to make it happen. To show you how important tires are, a 155 Horsepower Datsun 510 on Bias Ply slicks runs a 2:41 at Road America with a good driver.
I also thought it would be cool to do a "old school shoot out" with some high level drivers, in B Sedan cars. That would cost a lot of money, to set the cars up and give the driver some serious seat time to get the best laps they could(without balling up the car) lol

Cheers,
Steve

I should be able run a mid 38 judging the time I give up on my 2:41 flats with more seat time and and running smooth consistent laps, so would a pro be able to run 33's? There is a limit to adhesion and power in these cars but these guys are on another planet when it comes to technique and skills. Any thoughts on this? [/quote]

Top
#13483 - 11/22/16 08:24 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: tabs]
Alfaromeo1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 67
Loc: IL
I already know I can run a 2:38 from watching my videos and stated that. The problem is you seldom have the right track conditions, having the car really right, eight to ten clean laps in a row and are driving at your best all at the same time in Vintage. I want to be able to run consistent mid to high 39's driving 95% in a smooth consistent manner.

I do not go through the kink flat I enter about 110 back off to 102 so instead of exiting at 115 I am off 10mph or more but a pro could easily do it and would pick up 1.5 sec if not more. If they knick off .25 at each of the other 13 corners which they would there is another 3.25 sec so it is not as far fetched as you think. I feel confident they would run 2:34's on about their third lap if they knew the track. And they would do it every lap not one out of four or five also.

They know how and are able to do things we cannot even dream of. We are old men/women driving vintage kind of like a 6 or 7 handicapper who would not be able to break 82 on the courses the golf tournaments are held on while the pros are shooting 67's. A local bicycle racer even good ones racing Lance Armstrong or a ISU basketball player against Micheal Jordan there is no comparison what so ever.
_________________________
Terry R. Stahly
Bloomington, IL 72 Alfa GTV 2000
Grp 8 VSCDA, SVRA, Midwest Counsel, HSR

www.stahly.com
www.4qte.com

Top
#13484 - 11/22/16 09:22 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
tabs Offline
Winner

Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 402
Terry I don't think we will ever know if your car will run a 2:33 with a pro.
I agree, a pro racer might be a magician with a car. But sometimes a "Pro" cant make the equipment do more than it can do.
The tires are the tires. That is the limiting factor that we all have.
Troy Ermish and Dan Meller are probably the best your ever going to see in B Sedan car. Troy's car is faster than yours, he laughed at the idea of getting a 510 down to a 2:35 after burning off 2:38 laps in his car.
But when you run your first 2:38 I will buy you a congratulatory beer!

Cheers,
Steve

Top
#13485 - 11/23/16 08:09 AM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
Alfaromeo1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 67
Loc: IL
Steve I am not going to banter back and forth with you because you missed my point. Troy Ermish is one of the best drivers in Vintage but is light years away from Lewis Hamilton or other F1 drivers. I do not think you will find anyone who will dispute that including Troy.

Who cares what they can or cannot run I just stated my opinion, this is not a I am right you are wrong forum.
_________________________
Terry R. Stahly
Bloomington, IL 72 Alfa GTV 2000
Grp 8 VSCDA, SVRA, Midwest Counsel, HSR

www.stahly.com
www.4qte.com

Top
#13501 - 11/27/16 09:00 PM Re: Question for ProCoach [Re: dcb]
tabs Offline
Winner

Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 402
Terry,
maybe I did miss your point? Is it that you want to run consistent 2:39s in your car and get better?
I also read your Admiration for F1 guys that can drive unbelievably well.
That is where you stated your opinion that you thought those F1 drivers, could run a 2:33 in your car.
I am doing some bench racing with you and just don't see that happening.
Maybe someone else can chime in and give their opinion?

There was a Vintage F1 race at Monaco over a decade ago.
The Chief Steward had to have a meeting with all the Pro F1 drivers to talk with them about over driving the cars and wrecking them.
The amateurs were not the problem, the Pro's didn't know how to drive these cars to the limit without wrecking them.
So believe it or not certain amateurs are better than Pro's in many sports.
The great Ayrton Senna, could never beat a older than him, Go Cart Champion at his height of greatness. That really bothered him.
Steve

Top

Carl Jensen R.I.P. 1943-2017
Formula Junior N.A. Calendar
HSR ~ Next Event ~ Atlanta Fall Historics / Sep. 14 - 17
VARA News
Who's Online
1 registered (dcb), 242 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
jim1071, Jay Chapman, Benci96, Glashaus, littleredcorvette
739 Registered Users