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#14463 - 02/18/18 10:38 PM Steel testing
Hap Waldrop Offline
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Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 802
Loc: Greenville, SC
Have any of you ever had any steel testing done, looking at testing a given piece, as for steel type and what sort of hardening was done to it.
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#14466 - 02/21/18 02:13 AM Re: Steel testing [Re: Hap Waldrop]
fordboy628 Offline
Professional

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 322
Loc: NE Illinois
Hap,

Look for a local "Metallurgical Testing Service". There is typically a service such as this near most large cities, though you might have send your sample some distance. I'd dig for a "racing experienced" service in the Charlotte, NC area, such as:

Metallurgical Technologies, Inc in Mooresville, NC.


OR, if you want to find something closer to home, you can check on ThomasNet.com, the online version of the Thomas Register.

https://www.thomasnet.com/south-carolina/metallurgical-testing-services-84848597-1.html



It is a relatively simple matter for a professional testing service to determine:

Material spec
surface hardness
core hardness
heat treat specification
and whether or not these were "properly" accomplished

Ask for an estimate of charges in advance of sending in a sample. It can be pricey . . . . .

Do NOT expect the sample to be returned in a usable fashion, as this is "destructive" testing. Basically, they are "reverse-engineering" the part. These places can also perform "non-destructive" testing, but it is not as certain.

Additionally, a metallurgical professional can suggest alternate materials and heat treatment specifications. Those might perform better, but the person specifying needs to thoroughly understand the nature of the usage. And be aware that "better performing" may also be "higher cost".

Cheers


Edited by fordboy628 (02/21/18 02:24 AM)
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Fordboy628

Without "data", you are just another guy with a theory or an opinion . . . .

Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the real world . . . .

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#14467 - 02/21/18 02:39 AM Re: Steel testing [Re: fordboy628]
fordboy628 Offline
Professional

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 322
Loc: NE Illinois
For anyone who wants to understand the metallurgical testing process:

This is a link to a professional case study of a racing part failure.

https://met-tech.com/race-car-transmission-input-shaft/


Note that not all the samples were manufactured from the same material, and also had different heat treatment specs.


It is simplistic to tell a subcontractor/provider: Make it from "good material" and make it "really hard".

Cheers
_________________________
Fordboy628

Without "data", you are just another guy with a theory or an opinion . . . .

Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the real world . . . .

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#14468 - 02/21/18 09:52 AM Re: Steel testing [Re: Hap Waldrop]
Alfaromeo1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 94
Loc: IL
I don't know what others opinions are of cryogenics but I will share mine. I had a motor (Alfa 2.0L) treated about five years ago and got seventy hours before the rings went instead of the normal 23-25 hours. The subsequent motors since we ran out of time all lasted under thirty hours.

There are other benefits also such as less breakage which is the main reason many race teams cryogenic treat their motors, brake rotors or even gears and suspension parts.

I spoke with a guy who runs midgets who was averaging 2.5 motors a season and he went to 1.5 years out of his motors this works and its cheap about a grand for a whole motor.

The best place I have found is in NC and does all the Nascar stuff.
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Terry R. Stahly
Bloomington, IL 72 Alfa GTV 2000
Grp 8 VSCDA, SVRA, Midwest Counsel, HSR

www.stahly.com
www.4qte.com

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#14479 - 02/23/18 03:46 PM Re: Steel testing [Re: Hap Waldrop]
Hap Waldrop Offline
Champion

Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 802
Loc: Greenville, SC
Terry what engine parts were cryo-ed?
_________________________
Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop 864-370-3000
www.acmespeedshop.com
MG/Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines
The Vintage Production Car Festival
https://www.facebook.com/vintageproductioncarfestival

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#14480 - 02/23/18 06:37 PM Re: Steel testing [Re: Hap Waldrop]
Alfaromeo1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 94
Loc: IL
from the best of my memory it was
block
crank -supposed to also reduce some harmonics??
rods
pistons
rings
liners
cams
cam and some other valve train items
head
not sure on valve springs or valves

I have done brake rotors and the trans gears and rear end gears before REM finishing and/or coatings in the past also. Not sure how much that helps but it sure doesn't hurt and I feel anytime you can reduce some heat and friction its a good thing and it all adds up. Maybe including all the engine parts coatings and other treatments it probably nets you a two or three hp at the rear wheels on a 210hp car.

I would think as cheap as it is certain vintage cars who have any suspension parts or other than have been known to fail would be an obvious candidate also for this too. Send me a pm if you want the contact info.

The way they explain it is take your five fingers and spread them out a little and then close them together freezing at 300 below somehow realigns or rearranges the grain and strengthens the part and at the same time extends the life as much at three to four times on wear parts. It is a one time permeant thing at least on the items you do not replace when you refresh. Maybe not the best thing for engine builders who make their living rebuilding motors but seems like a pretty good plan for the person paying the bills.

We have done some axle shafts and other parts for our off road agricultural equipment when we have experienced breakage on some of them over the years also with excellent results.
_________________________
Terry R. Stahly
Bloomington, IL 72 Alfa GTV 2000
Grp 8 VSCDA, SVRA, Midwest Counsel, HSR

www.stahly.com
www.4qte.com

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